S4 EP: 8 Life Lately - Miscarriage, TTC, Separation.

We're back after a little mid-year break and kicking things off with a life update episode.

Content warning: This episode contains discussion of miscarriage.

Laura shares where she's been at on her TTC journey and opens up about a recent miscarriage. Aimee also shares her own experience with miscarriage from a few years ago.

We also chat about how different life looks for Aimee these days - seven months on from her separation, living on her own, and in a completely different headspace to where she was at the end of last year.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Welcome to Home Birth Stories Australia, a podcast sharing the stories of those choosing to birth at home. We are your hosts, Laura and Amy.

SPEAKER_00 0:13

Homebirth Stories Australia acknowledges the traditional owners of country across Australia, including the Jagera and Terrible peoples on whose lands we meet today.

SPEAKER_01 0:22

We honour their enduring connection to land, waters, and communities and pay respect to elders past, present, and emerging.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

The traditional custodians hold the memories and traditions of birthing on country, practices that have been passed down for countless generations before women were removed to birth in institutional settings.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

The medicalization of birth has a lasting legacy that continues to limit choices and impact families to this day.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

Hello. So we thought we would jump on and chat to you guys because it's been a little while since we've released an episode. So we wanted to give you a bit of a I don't know, I guess a little live update, a little chitty chat. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:19

I feel like there's gonna be a lot in this episode because we've been talking about recording one in particular, I suppose, and it's I don't know. Does it need a trigger warning?

SPEAKER_00 1:30

I just think maybe a compassion. Yeah, yeah. Little compassion tick, I guess you could say. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:39

So I suppose, yeah, let's just talk about life update stuff, and then um I guess like obviously people would know that I'm on our journey to conceive our next baby, and yeah, I guess it's not been going very well at this point in time.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

No, yeah. Do you want to? So I think the last time we updated everyone was that did you tell everyone that you were trying? We did, we did. So do you want to update everyone and take us from that point and explain what's going on?

SPEAKER_01 2:08

Yeah. Well, I suppose we've been trying to conceive since I don't know, October, maybe, maybe even no, I would say it's about October last year.

SPEAKER_02 2:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

And everything has been taking a lot longer than it did the first time. So, yeah, the first time obviously with Harry, as everyone would know if they've listened to my episode, it was the first try, which is absolutely incredible and very lucky. And then this time around hasn't been the case. And we haven't even been trying for as long as what I know some people try for. I'm just I'm very aware of that. But yeah, like this, no, last month, what is it now? June last May. May so last month we did conceive, and I found out like I guess a day after my miss period, because I feel like my period has been like day 29, 30, 31, and it's just kind of been playing around in that field. Yeah. So I was just waiting for it to be pretty definitive before I weed on a stick because as people would know, you just get to the point where you're like, I don't want to know. I don't know. Like you go, I don't want to see a negative because it's just so disheartening, and then you get your period the next day.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

That's just how it always works for me. Oh, but yeah, it's the worst. I remember that from when we were trying to conceive. It's like I literally cannot handle seeing another negative fucking pregnancy test. Right?

SPEAKER_01 3:22

Yeah, it's almost like you can handle the disappointment of a period more than a negative test. Yeah. Especially because they're so expensive.

SPEAKER_00 3:29

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 3:30

So yeah, like we've been doing everything to try and conceive as much as what we possibly can, like been going to acupuncture weekly or fortnightly, depending on my days and stuff. And Louie's been taking supplements. He did a sperm analysis test and it flagged some things, and then I've tests done all the things. So I was like until tracking the temperature.

SPEAKER_00 3:49

Were you really up to the ante in the last couple of months as well? You weren't doing acupuncture this whole time. You've been doing tracking your temp and doing all of that, and then you kind of were like, okay, like I'm sick of this. Let's kind of up the ante a little bit. Hey.

SPEAKER_01 4:01

Yes. So yeah, and we've been, I've been doing like BBT monitoring and stuff like that with a temp drop that one of my good friends has given me to have over the last four months or something. I've been using that thing, which has been so good. It's helpful. You just shove it on in at night time if anyone wants to. Because you were using the was it a mouth? The oral one, yeah. And it's a slightly higher temperature um than the average overnight temperature you get from the temp drop that you put on your arm. So that's been helpful because you just sink it in the morning and it gives you the stats and you're all good to go. And you can track it all yourself. And so everything was fine. Like I knew when I was ovulating, we were having sex when we were ovulating every month. And I guess we were very lucky to fall pregnant last month. I don't like how much detail should we go into the whole situation and then how we are how we got to now.

SPEAKER_00 4:52

Yeah, it's up to you like how much you want to share. It's whatever you feel comfortable with.

SPEAKER_01 4:57

Yeah, I suppose I went and got a blood test done on my own through instant scripts or Aussie scripts or whatever it was. And that's very easy, quick, cheap because I don't like to go to doctors and pay however much money just to get that done. So I got that done. The HCG reading was about 210, the first one. Yeah. And for me with Harry, I did not even bother getting another blood test done. And what was it with Harry? Do you remember? Yeah, it so I think at Harry, it was like almost five weeks when I got it done. Whereas this baby, I was four weeks on the dot. I got and with this baby, I suppose a week earlier it was about 210-ish. So I don't know, whatever. So I was yeah, cool, I'm pregnant, and I automatically started feeling nauseous a few days after that. And I was like, okay, here we like go. Because that was obviously my biggest fear, right? And then I went to the doctor on the Monday after I had the blood test done on the Friday with the reading of 210, and the doctor was like, let's just get your HCG done and we'll get your iron and everything else checked again. And I basically went in there asking for all of the nausea medication under the sun.

SPEAKER_02 6:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:06

Which I got, thank God. Um, so I had it all ready set up, ready to go, because that was obviously the biggest fear. So I got that blood test done on the Monday, and then on Tuesday morning I woke up and checked my health record, and the number was 400. And I was like, okay. And I suppose at that point I was like, what does that even mean? Yeah. So it was about Harry was about 390 at the same point, right? And I thought, okay, maybe it's just me. Maybe my HCGs, like my numbers are just low normally, because I know some people's are ridiculous. People who have 8,000, 9,000, 11,000 at that point. And you're like, what the f why is there such a broad so different for everybody involved, right? Yeah, it's weird. It's so weird. So it sent me into a panic, obviously, because I was like, it didn't double in it doubled in three days, I guess you could say almost.

SPEAKER_02 7:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:05

And I didn't want to get that blood test done in the first place. I'd talked to Amy about it. I was like, I don't want to get another HCG. That's silly. I'm not gonna do that. And then I did it anyways, because when you're with a doctor, you kind of just go, okay, just tag it on.

SPEAKER_00 7:18

Like, I don't know, have you thought? Because obviously we send each other audios every day. And it's like, I feel like your anxiety kind of spiked early on. It did. And yeah, so like at what point? I mean, because we talk about our body telling us things and all of this sort of stuff, and I remember saying that to you, is this what you want for the rest of the pregnancy? Like, yeah, all of that sort of stuff. And do you feel like your anxiety came from knowing that maybe something wasn't a hundred percent correct or it was going to work out, and that was like your intuition telling you something, or do you feel like that was coming from, like, where do you think that anxiety was coming from? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 7:56

I think I I I had been seeing so much and knowing so much more about that things can go wrong, and I just I don't know, because before I even saw the doctor on Monday, I was talking to Amy about do I do another test or not? Because the number seemed pretty low. So maybe I already did know somehow that something wasn't quite right, and I was like, I don't want to see another HCG because maybe I knew that something might be a bit funny with it. But and then I looked at Harry's from 2022 when I fell pregnant with him and it was 390 and then I started going, okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:34

That's actually like at five weeks. Were you five weeks, did you say? Or six?

SPEAKER_01 8:39

No, I must have been about five.

SPEAKER_00 8:42

And then I feel like that's quite low for five weeks, even then. Yeah, but no one said anything to me back then. No, and like also like that just might be your body as well. So it's kind of really so hard to know. Yes. I wish I had kept Juni's, for example. I didn't keep any of that documentation.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

You'll be able to find it on my health record though. Oh, maybe I'll check. If you should go back and have a look. Because I want to put Amy's experience in this podcast episode as well, because I think it's really important to share what it's yeah, uh what it's like to go through a miscarriage. Yeah. So, anyways, got the blood test done and I had the doctor call me, and she was like, Oh, a little bit concerned about the numbers and that the fact that they doubled, but it took about three days to get there. And then everyone around me was like, but it can be 48 to 72 hours, could be two to three days that it doubles, and all those kinds of things. And I was like, Okay. So many different things, it's so hard. I know. And by this point, my iron had already dropped, and that can be a good sign to some extent, too, that the baby's starting to take stuff from you. Um, and then my doctor said, I think you should get another blood test done. And I went by that before that point, I had made a decision to not do that because it gave me too much anxiety, and I didn't want to didn't I can't do anything about it. That's what I decided. I can't do anything about it. If it is low, if it's high, if it's not moving, I don't that it is what it is. And I had already contacted a midwife, met up with her, and that was the day that I saw that HCG number, and I had a full panic about it and had a cry to her on the phone, and she came over and saw me that day, which was absolutely amazing, and talked through all the different situations that could occur. And at that moment, I even asked her, what is it like to have a miscarriage? Like, when will I know what are the signs and what are some worrying signs, I suppose, if it could be ectopic or whatever? Because I think my doctor did say something at that point, like the numbers aren't rising how you would want them to, so this could possibly be not viable or ectopic or whatever. And that's that that's when that that also panicked me, ectopic, right? Like you don't want to hear that.

SPEAKER_00 10:46

Of course, that generally means that you're gonna lose a flow pinching, yeah. If you go unnoticed, yeah, you don't realize that. Right, exactly. So it's kind of like the risk that comes with an ectopic pregnancy is so high. Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 11:00

Um yeah, anyways, so that was it. So that I just yeah, seeing that midwife and having that chat was really reassuring. And I had her sort of in my back pocket if I ever needed to contact her and ask her more questions, which she was more than happy to, which was absolutely amazing.

SPEAKER_00 11:16

Amaz, yeah. And this is what you need, you need like women like that, right? That's just so happy to be there to answer any questions that you have in that moment. It's just amazing. Exactly right.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

And she had just said to me that you could be a low HCG person, hence the why the parameters are so broad when you're there.

SPEAKER_00 11:36

I literally just Googled it, right? So let's have a quick look if that's okay. Go for it. Just give people some perspective, right? So you literally just Google it. It's different from different pathology places, but they're all very healthdirect.gov, so HTG levels. At four weeks, it can be zero to 750. Five weeks, it can be 200 to 7,000. At six weeks, it can be 200 to 32,000. Do you know what I mean? That is such a broad range that is not specific at all. And you kind of think to yourself, like yeah, like you can't use that as a as the only unit of measurement, right? Like you're doing that, you're just asking for heartache, I think, sometimes. Because I remember from our days in IBF, we were obsessed, like Ezra and I were obsessed with HCG levels, and we would Google it, but then you'd look at all the blogs and the forums and stuff, and it would be like, oh, my HCG was 8,000, and then we miscarried. Do you know what I mean? It doesn't actually indicate anything, it just indicates that you're pregnant.

SPEAKER_01 12:39

Yeah. And then that's why they hone in on the doubling rate, right? I guess that's then your baseline. Baseline, I guess, is a thing. So yeah, and with Harry, I never had another blood test done. I was like, I'm pregnant, moving on.

SPEAKER_00 12:54

Oh, to be a first-time mum and that's really I know.

SPEAKER_01 12:58

And I'm very blessed to have been able to be naive. I'm very lucky. Um, I don't have that now. I feel like that's gone. Because I even with this one, I was still naive, right? I just I had never even thought about HCG or anything. I've never had to worry about it. And yeah, so I suppose it was always in the back of my mind, and I basically decided never to have it. I I just was like, I'm not having a blood test again, that's it. We'll wait to the seven-week scan, and if something happens before, then something happens before then, right? Yep. So I would have been like a day or two before six weeks, and I started to spot, and then I started to bleed, and then I started to have intense cramping, and this went, this was literally last week. So last Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. So it got way more intense as it went on. And the cramping was, and I would describe it as early labor, or even what do you call them, afterbirth pains, because I know first-time mums don't generally have afterbirth pains, but I remember having them for at least a week after having Harry. Every time I'd breastfeed, I was like back into you know what I mean? Yeah. But yeah, it was so wild at times they were coming every five minutes, coming in and going. It literally was like labor for me.

SPEAKER_00 14:13

Like and you're like, you're so in tune with your body. That is one thing that I really admire about you is that you're so in tune with it. And even just listening to your audios and having you talk me through it and everything that you're feeling, you literally said it feels like early labor. The fuck is this? No one talks about actually just how painful this can be. And like I said to you, I don't remember it being painful, but that doesn't mean it wasn't for me. Yeah, but yeah, you also don't get cramping with your periods, so we have talked a lot about that.

SPEAKER_01 14:41

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I guess the cramping and everything got really bad on the weekend. I saw Amy on the Saturday, and at that point I was like, this is not good. This does it feels like I've I'm about to lose this baby. Yeah. Like the bleeding started to get heavier and heavier. But it it I wouldn't say for me, even my periods are not heavy. So I would say the last four days of the whole cramping would be my day two period. But for me, you know, compared to you, Amy or whoever, like it's probably not as heavy as someone's average period. Yeah. And it did start to get clots and stuff in it, only tiny little bits throughout. I never actually had a huge clot at all. You know what I mean? Like maybe they were like 10 cent pieces or less than that. They were all little bits, and I guess that's why I cramped for so long because little bits came out at a chime. And then on Sunday, no, yeah. Sunday was probably super painful, and then Monday um came around and I decided to go to work.

SPEAKER_00 15:39

I don't and I remember sending you an audio being like, Do you want me to come see you? And you're like, probably not.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

And like it was a good distraction for me. Um, it just made the day go quickly, to be honest. I didn't want to sit there at home and be looking at signs and going to the toilet and looking and panicking about it and having no one to talk to.

SPEAKER_00 16:01

Um, look, let's be real, teaching is an amazing way to get your mind off everything because there's so much going on all the time. So totally.

SPEAKER_02 16:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:12

And so not great. And then I think it must have been Tuesday, I had a call from a doctor and she was like, Hey, I've just had a look at actually, I don't know, my timings might be off, but she basically called me and just said, How are you going? I've just had a look at your HCG results. What's I just I'm concerned because the number didn't go up and all these things. And she said to me, like, I'm just worried it's ectopic because she just called me and was like, How are you going? And I basically said to her, I'm pretty sure I'm having a miscarriage because of the cramping and the pain. The pain was really intense, and she was super concerned by that. And so I was like, Cool, what do you want me to do about it? You know, for me, I'm like, I want to have this done on its own. If it if I'm miscarrying, it's gonna happen, and that's that. And I wanted to do it on its own. I don't really need any interventions about that sort of thing. And she said to me, like, I think you need to go and get an ultrasound done now. And I was like, It's four o'clock.

SPEAKER_00 17:12

I know four o'clock. Your HCG was like at 12, was it 1200 or like 1100?

SPEAKER_01 17:18

Oh, sorry, yes, I had so Amy's reminding me. I was like, Why did she call me? So, yes, I did get another blood test done on the Sunday because I was like, I'm miscarrying and I want to know the number now, even though I decided not to bother with it. And it was a thousand sixty-six and it should have been about over 3,000 if the doubling rate was accurate. And that's when she called me and was like, I've just had a look, and I was like, Yes, I've been that's why I went and got a blood test done because I was concerned about it at that point. And so she said to me, like, if it gets worse, if you start to get dizzy or something and you get weird pain on one side, like it could be ectopic, you need to go straight to emergency. Otherwise, you need to call up like Q scan, find somewhere where you can get a scan done. And I was like, Okay, I'm gonna try and do that at four o'clock on in the afternoon. I'll go on a Tuesday afternoon. On a Tuesday afternoon. Anyways, obviously, no one's gonna be surprised by what I found that there were no appointments in the afternoon at that point. And I had a chat to Amy and I just said, I don't I just I know my body really well, but I feel like I've lost a little bit of faith in it with throughout this process. Obviously, I know I'm not listening to my gut as much as what I probably would be because of all the numbers that are involved. And I literally just said to her, like, I don't think my pain is getting worse, and I feel like if it does, I'll know, and I'll have to go to the hospital with minutes away from it at night time. Anyway, so she helped me work through that whole situation and and living. You literally asked me, What would you do?

SPEAKER_00 18:53

What would you do? I was sitting there for a minute before I replied to you, being like, I don't know. I don't want to do it. It's hard. It's so hard, but I feel like actually just redirecting you back to the fact that do you feel well? Do you know what I mean? Yeah. I was like, does sh do you feel well? I actually thought that you were okay because of the way that you were talking. But I think it's so important. It's so hard when you and that's what we've been saying to each other the last couple of days, is that we're so grateful to each other because we've got that space to bounce peop bounce this shit off each other because otherwise, like you said, you would be totally alone experiencing this, and there's so many women out there that are just on their own, sitting there on the toilet with this happening, and just no one to be like, What the fuck is this? So yeah, it's shit. And I'm so glad that we were able to I was able to help you through that.

SPEAKER_01 19:41

So yeah, I do get emotional thinking about the fact that some people do that alone, it's just crazy, yeah. It's horrible. Um yeah, it's wild, anyways. I just made that decision and I actually booked a scan in on Wednesday morning at 8:30 and we dropped Harry off, which is just so weird that you just go about your normal life and have to do all the things.

SPEAKER_00 20:09

And again, because you sent me an audio and Harry's in the background, like you know the spirits, and there's Buck and Harry making dinosaur noises. I'm like, he just It's so good.

SPEAKER_01 20:20

No one was going. And he's known about this whole process. We told him we were pregnant, and he's like, I get a baby brother or sister, and I'm like, Yeah. And then I just had to tell him we I think baby's not gonna be here anymore. And he's why. And I'm like, I don't know how to explain that one, but I wanted him to understand why I was so upset for the last week because I feel like I've been on such a roller coaster.

SPEAKER_02 20:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:43

And so Louie and I decided to go in and got the scan done at 8:30 in the morning, and it's such an awkward experience to some extent. I'm pretty fine though, like being upfront about stuff. Like when I got to the counter, I said, It's not a dating scan, I just want to forewarn you. We're just here to see if this is ectopic or not, and that it's miscarriage is doing its job. And she was like, Oh, okay. And you feel out this form, and it's like a couple of questions, like, oh, what's some things you want to tell the ultrasound tech or whatever they're called? And I wrote on there like ectopic question mark, having a miscarriage, bleeding, cramping, etc. And they hand it back to me, and I'm sitting there waiting in the room with the pit this piece of paper that I feel like the woman should have had before I got in there.

SPEAKER_00 21:26

Yeah, what the fuck? Usually it'd be like yeah before you go in.

SPEAKER_01 21:30

It's just weird. And she's come out and got me, and we're walking down the hallway to get this ultrasound done. And she said to me, Oh, this is exciting. It's a dating scan. And I went, Not quite. And the woman that we had was so beautiful, and yeah, she was she is exactly who I needed to have at that moment. So we went in and I just said to her, Look, it's just this is the this is it. This is we're just here to see if this is in the right spot and that it's what I think is happening. I hop on the bed and Um I said I really do not want to have the internal done because I am bleeding and still cramping and it's just such a I just you just don't want to be there doing that. Getting a tow-wanding. No, you don't. No, I don't. And I knew it was coming for me. Um, because I had to have the same thing done with Harry at the same sort of even later gestation. I think it was almost nine weeks when I had that dating scan done with him. So yeah, we're like laying there and she's put the gel on my stomach and she's oh no, yeah. You've got a what is it, retroverted uterus or whatever it is. Yep. And I went, ah cool. Love that I know that. I'm almost 35. Just figured that one out. No one's ever told me that. And she goes, You're gonna have to have the internal. And I was like, Yes, cool. Love that for me. Went into the bathroom and emptied my bladder and came back out. And she had me sit up on this big wedge thing with my bum up, tilted up. And she's put the wand in and everything, and she's oh, there's your cervix, it's closed. And then she's put it onto the uterus, and the uterus looks so weird. It's I don't know how to just you're we're putting our thumb and our fingers together with our hands, yeah, like a folded over thing. I don't know. It reminds me of a piece of bread photographs. Yeah, it does a bit, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_00 23:16

Yeah, that's how it reminds me of.

SPEAKER_01 23:18

Yeah, because I've never had an ultrasound done on my uterus at all. Without obviously the only time I've ever had that done was with Harry when I was pregnant.

SPEAKER_02 23:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:27

And you can see the little center bit that's black, right? That's where a baby would be. And so you could see that in there and you could see something in it. No heartbeat. That was very easily confirmed at the start. She goes, Yeah, no. I did ask a lot of questions because I feel like she didn't really want to say a lot to me because obviously this is such an awkward situation.

SPEAKER_00 23:47

And I just don't think they're allowed to either, to be honest.

SPEAKER_01 23:51

No, they're not allowed to diagnose, right?

SPEAKER_00 23:53

No, but that whole setup is so fucking weird to me. And I know someone listening is gonna be like, no, it makes sense, but I just don't think it does. Oh, doctor on site, yeah. So they're the stenographer, right? They're the ultrasound technician. Yes, and then they send the ultrasound to the doctor. Why is the radiographer or whatever just not doing the scan? I don't understand that.

SPEAKER_01 24:17

It's a weird one, isn't it? Um especially given the circumstance. Like I just kind of wanted to be confirmed, like I just wanted to know.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

You don't want to fuck around, you still have an answer. Totally.

SPEAKER_01 24:28

And she like she took the measurement of it, and I swear to god, I saw two or three millimeters or something, and I was like, oh, so it's like only this tiny little piece of something that's still sitting in there. Um and I was just like, wow, like it's that's that. And I was like, so that's in my uterus. So there is something in my uterus that's in the right spot. And she said, it looks like that is what it is. And I was like, okay. And then she obviously had to scan my ovaries and things like that. So she scanned my right ovary, and that was where this baby had come from. That's where the egg was released. I think Harry was the same from memory, maybe. Um, and then she looked at my left one and I couldn't see anything on the screen. She's like, Yeah, no, it was definitely the right one. I was like, cool. And I said to her, There's nothing in the fallopian tubes, everything is fine, right? Like you cannot see a thing. And she's like, if I can't see the fallopian tubes, then everything is fine. And I was like, Great. So that's all I needed to know, basically. And then we had a little chat after the whole situation, and I just said to her, like, everything looks like it's doing what I said it was, like I'm having a miscarriage. And she's everything's your uterus is moving and pushing stuff out, and like it, that's what it looks like on the screen. And I was like, okay, cool. She's like, I can't say anything. And I was like, No, I know. She's like, You'll have to have a chat to your doctor about it and get the definitive answer off them. And I was like, Yeah, cool. And I haven't made a doctor's appointment because of what happened. Was it the next morning? I think it was. So we left that appointment and I just walked out crying because I was like, that's it. Like I've had it confirmed, like it is happening. Yeah, we just I went to work. I should do work. Yeah, I had stuff I needed to do, and yeah, cramping all day long. And I'm gonna actually say too that some of the cramping went on for hours and it didn't stop. There was no in-between that some of them felt like the contractions where they come and go, but then some of them, I reckon for hours on end, it felt like my uterus was cramping the whole time. Makes sense. Yeah, super tired. The entire time, totally, anyways. This is a really long story, everyone. But I feel like it's important because I just don't know if I've heard I don't know if I've heard anyone speaks to an extent talk about the pain of it and how long it went on for and stuff like that. And for six weeks pregnant, I it actually blows my mind to be honest, because I would never have thought that. I thought it would just be over and done with in a couple of days, and it just feels like it's I'm still bleeding today and it's Friday. Yeah. And, you know, it started bleeding on the Saturday, Friday, the Friday of the week before. So it's been a whole week now of bleeding. And on Sunday I would be seven weeks, I didn't make it that far. But on the Thursday morning when I woke up, I went to the toilet and I had a pretty decent sized blood clot come out. And then when I wiped again, this is pretty graphic. I don't know how much people want to listen to it, but obviously skip over. But I had this whole, I suppose almost three centimeter long what do you want to call it? Let me pull up the photo. It's not it wasn't a blood clot, it was what the baby would have been at that point, however long it grew to.

SPEAKER_00 27:38

I guess a piece of tissue is kind of like it kind of looks hard.

SPEAKER_01 27:42

It was really hard.

SPEAKER_00 27:43

It was it was it would have been the placenta forming and yeah, like you can literally see like the length and then almost like what looks to be like the almost the placenta on either end. Yeah, the either end. But yeah, like I think it's definitely what it was. It was something, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:02

So for me, that was my okay. It that what I saw on the ultrasound, even though it said it was two or three millimeters, I got that how that equates to the size of what it came out. I was like, Well, that's crazy to me. Yeah, that's that. And then literally all day yesterday, I felt no cramping at all. It had completely stopped, and I'm still bleeding, but it's calming down over yeah, the last two days. I feel like it's calmed down a lot, which is nice. And I went back to the gym this morning and yeah, just continued on. And like when that happened in the bathroom on Thursday morning, like Harry was standing at the door being like, What's that, mum? What is going on? What are you doing? And I was like, Oh my god, I had no time to stand there and actually think about what actually had just happened. Yeah. And I was literally, I just said, I think that's that. And I actually said goodbye to the baby, and I didn't really know what to do with it. And so we just I flushed it down the toilet, and I know some people probably would have buried it or done something with it or whatever. But I just didn't think about it I thought about it and then I just don't I was like, I don't have like I just don't have time to think about what I want to do right now, which is awful.

SPEAKER_00 29:19

I don't have like when you've got a toddler around, you don't have time to think for yourself in general. Yeah. So you've got someone standing there and yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:29

So yeah. It's just a really wild experience. And yeah, I've had a lot of time to process it. I suppose it's been two weeks since that first blood test that I got done. Yeah, and it's just it feels like it's been an eternity that I've been bleeding and cramping for, to be honest, because it's been going on for so long. And I think a lot of people were shocked about how painful it I felt it was. I didn't take any panadol or whatever because I just it's just like giving birth. I was like, I just want to feel the whole thing and know that I'm because I feel like I didn't want to block it out, I wanted to be able to feel what was happening with my uterus and stuff. Not that I think panadol would have even touched the sides, to be honest. But yeah, anyway, so that's that's that whole story, and now we're at this point where my temperature has started to come back down and my HCG when I do a pee on one of those little cheap HCG blood pea sticks, like it's starting to get lighter and lighter. So I guess we're on the other side of it now, and yeah. That's it. So I guess we'll just try again another day. Um yeah. I feel like it's just such a common story that especially in between children sometimes too, that you people have miscarriages and you just never think it's gonna happen to you, and then you're like, oh fuck. I am a statistic here, yeah, and it's more than that, I know, but you just you know those numbers before, like you everyone knows the numbers like one in four or whatever. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:16

So emotionally, like how are you feeling? Like you've said, oh, I've processed it and I've done all of these things. How are you feeling? Or like what emotion because like I think look, I'm sorry to put you through this because I know that you don't like talking about it. But I guess what I'm interested in is your internal landscape throughout this entire experience. Because obviously, like I know how you've been feeling, but I think it's probably would be beneficial for you to talk it through with our listeners and talk about it like that.

SPEAKER_01 31:50

I don't know. Obviously, when I think about it now, I still get upset about it. Yeah, I don't know. It's I I've there's just been a lot of thoughts going through my mind, and I've said these things to Amy before, but the worst thing I feared when I got pregnant was how sick I would be, and that is like the it's such not a thing anymore for me. That's not a fear anymore. In fact, it's probably something that I would welcome. I did start to get nauseous with this baby really early on, yeah. And I wonder if that's also a red flag for me. No? Yeah. I don't know. At what point does um GDF-15, that hormone, start to do its thing? Like I don't know when that is, but usually it is at six weeks onwards, right? So something I guess wasn't quite right. And I feel I don't know, there's a lot of thoughts are going in my head right now, but I guess I'm we're gonna try again because it's solidified that we wanted to have this baby, and I've been so upset about it, right? First when I peed on the stick, I was terrified, I was shaking because I was like, holy shit, like I've got two weeks until my life is turned upside down and I get really sick. And I was just petrified about that moment, and then that you know, I when I turned six weeks, I was already bleeding and cramping, so gonna happen, and the nausea had already disappeared at that point, right? But I think the biggest change for me is the I don't know. This is just gonna sound so all over the place, Amy. Sorry. Next pregnancy, which I hope happens one day, I will not be getting any HCG blood tests done at all. Yeah, that's solidified the fact that I want to stay so completely out of the whole medical part of it, I think for me. And I think that I probably will just wait until the dating scan, which is just for me to know that there's a heartbeat, and that's that. And if something happens before, then maybe I might change my mind about what decision I make about doing a blood test or whatever. But for me, I'm like, I don't need to know on a blood test that I'm pregnant because I knew I was pregnant, you know what I mean? Yeah, and I don't want the worry or the concern or anything or anxiety about the whole like numbers situation because for me, like numbers are like I love data, but that was that's just too much stuff.

SPEAKER_00 34:04

I think you get caught up in that external validation too. It's really actually as much as we sit here on this podcast and we preach to ourselves about we don't want to be like that, it is so fucking hard to not get caught up in that external validation. I got swallowed whole by it, I think. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:22

And I got swallowed whole by, for example, like a doctor telling me that they're concerned I have an ectopic pregnancy, and I knew that I didn't, and then I panicked about it, going, maybe I'd have got one-going around around in circles because that there's that thought then.

SPEAKER_00 34:35

And so, like you said to me on that audio, like you've had a small little snippet of what it's like for some women in the totally, and this is why it's like you're vulnerable at every stage of your pregnancy. Like I I I genuinely think that, and I think that you're so open to influence, it's so important to be aware of that, and like even our podcast, you know what I mean? There's some things that we might say or do that might influence people, you know? And so I just think that it's so important that you're recognizing that. And like I said to you, without sounding like cliched or trying to brush everything off, but there's actually like learning in a lot of things that happen for us, and like obviously, I'm not saying that you need to push through to okay, what was the lesson in this? But even just going through the process of it, it's made you realize that no, I just want to stay in tune with my body because that's like I said before, that's one thing that you're so good at is remaining in tune with that, and that's why I asked you the question is do you think it is that you actually knew something wasn't right and was trying to convince yourself otherwise, or that you did get caught up in it? And I mean it could be a mixture of both, like it doesn't have to be one or the other, but yeah, I think it's both happened. Yeah, I definitely think both happened.

SPEAKER_01 35:51

I think that they're in my head, I was like, oh yeah, I guess I was I was concerned about the whole thing even before I had the second blood test, to be honest.

SPEAKER_00 36:01

Yeah. So you're sending me a message being like, it's not gonna happen, is it? I remember that's what you wrote. And I was just like, I don't know what to say to that. I don't want to say no, but also I don't want to say yes because it's so difficult in that moment because I don't want to I didn't want to give you false hope or anything like that. But I also didn't want to be like, oh yeah, no, it's not gonna happen because that's fucked. You just don't know. No, you don't.

SPEAKER_01 36:23

So yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think emotionally I have processed a fair bit of it, but there's still a huge amount of grief that's probably fucking oath gonna sit there for a very long time. This baby was meant to be due on my sister's birthday, very close to Harry's birthday when Harry was due and all those things. Like we have a lot of birthdays in February, and it would have been a February baby, and I was like, that checks out, you know. Literally did. Um, I was like, of course I'd fall pregnant the exact same month I fell pregnant with Harry. That just was bound to happen. But I guess it'll be interesting to see. I'm trying to be very optimistic about it, and I just think I guess we'll see what happens when I fall pregnant the next time. Yeah. And if there's I feel like things happen for a reason, and I know that, and I know that the baby wasn't there's something wrong with the baby, and my body figured it out. And I'm very lucky in that respect that my body was like, okay, let's there's something's just not quite right, let's do this now. Um, because I know that miscarriage can happen all the way up until 20 weeks, as we know, and then after that it's still birth, and it's yeah, women just yeah, I don't know. I've just I think until you've been through it, I guess you just don't get it as well. The people's comments about stuff and whatnot. Everyone's been really amazing and super open about listening to me talk about it too, which has been really nice because I don't want to be alone in every aspect of my life. P someone knows that I've had a miscarriage and have gone been going through it, if that makes sense. And that's been really nice to be able to be in at work or at the gym or you know, just with you in my other friend's circle. I've told different people so that I'm told in every aspect of my life, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 38:03

Yeah. And I remember you freaking out too that you'd told all these people that you're pregnant and you saying to me, Oh, like I shouldn't have done that. And it's no, that's exactly actually what you should be doing because I actually, like I said to you in an audio, I feel like the first trimester of pregnancy is the fucking hardest because you feel the shittiest. No one knows that you're pregnant because you don't look pregnant. Yeah. Whereas when your third trimester belly is swollen and there's very clearly a baby in there, people are like, oh, you must be so tired. Like it's expected that you feel shitty. Whereas in your first trimester, no one knows. So I actually think that this stigma of telling people in early pregnancy needs to just fuck right off because you need that support. Imagine if you didn't have that and you're just going through that silently, going to the gym and miscarrying and going to work and miscarrying like that's just fucked. We don't want to be alone in this situation, it's just shitty. So I'm glad when you told people I'm glad because you need to actually in these situations, you actually need to know how much people love you. Do you know what I mean? And that is women, that's the village. So that's what it's there for.

SPEAKER_01 39:15

Yeah. I am glad that I taught people now and that they're just there to support you. Yep. And no one's oh my god, I can't believe you told me, and now you're not fuck. You know, it's ever gonna be like that.

SPEAKER_00 39:25

And if they did, I'd smack them. I would smack them.

SPEAKER_01 39:28

My god, yeah, yeah. It's yeah, it's wild. I didn't answer your question about where I am emotionally and all that kind of shit, but I think you did though. Yeah, there's just like a lot of the and as you said, the learning is just wild to me because we already knew that this baby was gonna teach me patience, literally, yeah. Uh uh. And here we are, and also the other learning I feel has been that I can't just have shit done when I want it, and I can't control any of that stuff, and I can't control anything. And that's a big thing for me because as soon as I realized that I was miscarrying, I was like, I want this done now. Yes, and that's just not how it works, unfortunately, Laura.

SPEAKER_00 40:08

Um you can't push through some of these really hard things as much as we want to, and it's like an avoidance thing, right? Because we don't want to feel the pain that we're going to endure. Yeah, and like unfortunately, pain and discomfort is a part of the human experience.

SPEAKER_01 40:23

Yeah. As shitty as you feel discomfort, it's awful.

SPEAKER_00 40:27

Oh my god, it's horrible.

SPEAKER_01 40:28

It's horrible. I fucking hate it. So yeah, anyways, I just really hope that I guess how detailed my experience has been through this podcast. I just hope it's yeah. I hope that it just if you're going through a miscarriage or you know someone that is, this episode will hopefully help you. I don't know, you don't know until you do it, and but on some level, I just think it's really important to just talk through it. For me, the thing that I need is someone to talk, I need people to talk me through stuff. I just want someone to listen, and that's all I needed. I don't know what other people, and we'll we'll talk about Amy's experience in a second. I don't know what you felt like you needed in those moments, but for me, I just want someone to listen and for people to realize it and to actually check in every now and then and actually show that they care. I don't really need much else other than that. I did I do need babysitting sometimes. On Tuesday, I had the day off and a friend was like, Come and have a coffee with me, and I had hurry, and we did that. And then I had another friend that lives near me and was like, Do you want to come over? And the boys can play. And so I stayed there for three hours, and then it just made my day so much easier and not having to parent on my own and be triggered, etc. etc. So that sort of stuff was super helpful for me.

SPEAKER_00 41:41

Get out of your head, I think that is. Like you're very, from what I know about you, you're very internally thinking all the time, all of that. And in that situation, when we are sitting in discomfort and we are sitting in pain, you can get caught up in your own mind, and it's very difficult to get out of that. And that's why, like I said, it's important to have a village, and I'm so grateful that there's women out there that can bring you into that and I guess make you present and allow you to sit with them because that's that's a version of therapy, right? That I think is so underrated. Yeah, I think that this whole situation, and obviously, as I said to you in an audio, I'm really proud of you because even just the fact that you want to talk about this on the podcast, you're so brave to be able to open up about all of this and just to be vulnerable with everybody on this podcast and just with the people in your life. I think it's just such a such an admirable thing about you that you're always willing to put yourself out there and share what's going on. So thank you so much for doing that because I think this is gonna help somebody, right? Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 42:44

Yeah, that's it. I hope it does. Yeah, that's me. Cut so now do you want to I'm talking about myself now? Yes, moving on. It's been 47 minutes. Do you I don't know how you want to go. Do you want to talk about your experience with miscarriage as well? And then you can update us on how you're going with your life because obviously the last time we left everybody, you had moved into your own house and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 43:10

So yeah, yeah. I guess my miscarriage was a long time ago, and this is something that I kind of wanted to bring up with you too, is that my miscarriage was classified as a chemical pregnancy. And we were talking about that with you, how much I hate that terminology. And obviously, we just had the other Laura on the podcast who also had a chemical pregnancy. Yeah. And I've had other women, and I just fucking hate that because you're pregnant, you've got a positive pregnancy test, you're pregnant. That your mind instantly shifts when you get that positive result, really, regardless. And mine was definitely a chemical pregnancy, and so it was so long ago. And I like obviously just talking to you makes you think of your own experiences and stuff like that. And yeah, I my story is a little bit different because we were trying during 2020 and it was a transfer from our IBF round that we did back in 2018. Yeah. No, 17, sorry. And so I we did one transfer and it didn't take at all. I just got my period as per normal, whereas this one took and I got a positive pregnancy test, and I did the same thing. I tested every day with a pre pregnancy test to see if the line was getting stronger.

SPEAKER_02 44:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:21

Which is just again, you think to yourself, why are we doing this to ourselves? But I couldn't help myself. And the line didn't get any stronger. So I kind of knew as well. And then I'd contacted my fertility specialist and she was like, we need to get you on more progesterone. So because I was on Pesarese at that point, because they you need progesterone support because ultimately this is like an artificially assigned pregnancy until your body takes off and does it on its own. Like you need that additional support. And so I started to bleed, and it started out. So I've bled with all of my pregnancies, which is again a discussion that we've had recently. So I bled with Jeannie and I bled with River, and it was very light, it was never very heavy. So I knew when I bled with this one, and then it got heavier, that was it for me. Like I knew that was going to not be a viable pregnancy. And so I remember sending Ezra into because I had run out of progesterone, I think. And I sent him into he actually had to go into the clinic in the city to get my script. And he ran into our fertility doctor in the elevator, and he was the fertility doctor was like, How is she going? And Ezra was like she's clodding. And he, Ezra, as soon as I saw the look on the doctor's face, he knew it was over. He knew that was it. And so the doctors walked into the counter and was like, I need a script immediately. And like he's they've given him a script and he's signed it and they sent Ezra off and he's come home. It was just it was too late at that point. And I think from my perspective and from my memory, obviously it was a long this is we're talking like six years ago now. Holy shit, there's such a long time ago. To have that hope of I'm pregnant, I've wanted this for so long. Because at that point, Juni was two and uh two, like nearly two years old, and I wanted two under two, like that was a big thing for me. And then COVID hit, obviously. Said she with COVID, they actually ruled IBF as an elective procedure, so we weren't actually able to do it anymore after that that that transfer. And I was absolutely gutted because I was like, I really wanted a baby, I wanted to be pregnant, and yeah, like he came home, he gave me the script, and you know, or he had filled it, and we I was using the pezzaries, it was just it wasn't gonna do anything, it was a placebo at that point, yeah. And I remember bleeding quite heavily, my periods are very heavy, as we've talked about before, and I get a lot of cramping with my periods, so I don't remember this miscarriage being painful. Yeah, and then I remember just I am the sort of person, and I think this has played a part in the downfall of my marriage, like I'm very open about that, is that I'm the sort of person that unless you can ask me a very pointed question, I'm actually not gonna really tell you how I feel at that point in time. Or I was more like that then, I'm not so much like that now, but I remember feeling really fucking sad about it and thinking to myself, I wanted this so much, and I wonder who this person would have been if they were viable is the only word I can think of. And so I got up and wrote, I remember in the middle of the night, I just couldn't sleep because I'm bleeding and all of this sort of stuff, and I wanted a baby, and blah blah blah blah blah. And so I've gotten up and I've written this baby, or what would have been my baby, a letter to say goodbye to this child that I would have had. And I remember saying in this letter, I I should probably should find it actually. And it's on it's online, it's on my cloud somewhere and read it because it's I remember thinking, like saying, like I just I'll never get to know who you are, and what you've meant to me is so important, and like it it just guts me thinking about it. So I sat up in the middle of the night and while Ezra was sleeping and Jeannie was sleeping and cried and did that on my own, and because I didn't obviously feel safe enough to wake Ezra up to talk to him like emotionally safe enough to talk to him about it. And yeah, I remember that was it for me. That was my goodbye to this baby, and that's literally all I can remember. I feel like I've blocked the rest of it out, to be honest. So because I couldn't go anywhere, I couldn't do anything. We were in lockdowns and stuff like that. It was just like okay, and then I fell pregnant with River the next month. So I can look back at that situation obviously very differently to how you can look at yours right now because mine was six years ago.

SPEAKER_01 48:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:38

And I know the process because I know how it's turned out now, but it was still like just lonely because I don't think I told anyone that I was pregnant, I think I told Ezra, and then maybe I had a friend who'd been through IVF and I told her, and that was it. I didn't tell anybody else, no family, nothing. So it was just like one of those experiences where I just kept it on lockdown for some reason.

SPEAKER_01 49:05

Yeah, yeah. It's just really sad. I literally was crying about your letter.

SPEAKER_00 49:11

It's so lovely to do something like that. I felt like I needed to honour the a brief life.

SPEAKER_01 49:17

Yes, I feel it that that's exactly how it feels.

SPEAKER_00 49:20

I feel you're like otherwise, like there's no evidence of them, or there's no nothing, but there's nothing impacts that they've had on you is so deep emotionally as a woman. Like I said, when the minute you get that positive pregnancy test, your whole mindset shifts. You're talking about you're like, I want to count down until I'm sick. You're putting all of these procedures in place, you're talking it through, you're working through it in your mind because you're already moving forward, preparing for this child, and then to just have that taken away from you.

SPEAKER_01 49:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:51

It's like, what the fuck is that? And why? Yeah. Yeah.

unknown 49:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:55

There's a lot of why questions, right? You're like, was it like that? Why did that actually happen? Yeah, that's really awful. I mean, I hate that you've didn't have many people to talk to about it or to.

SPEAKER_00 50:06

No. No, well, I mean, I think the start, like you say, is one in four and one in th one in three or something like that. It's really high. But at that point in time, I don't know if my friends had a miscarriage before.

SPEAKER_02 50:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:17

So there was no one else to talk to about it. My mum had never had a miscarriage and she's had five kids. So there was just no one to talk to. I think I was in therapy at that point. So I probably spoke to my therapist about it. But past that, it was just like, Yeah, what am I to do?

SPEAKER_01 50:34

During such a lonely time, too, during sort of COVID stuff as well. It was fucking horrible. Yeah. So even more lonely than usual as well, right?

unknown 50:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:44

Nothing to distract you, you're at home.

SPEAKER_00 50:46

COVID was so bad. Yes, I know. Um yeah, I just I feel like the person that I am now would be so different if I had a miscarriage now versus who I was then. And obviously feeling like obviously I'm reflecting on my marriage too, because my marriage has ended since then. And just about how I didn't turn to him in those moments of need. I'm not putting all of the blame on him because I could have opened up in that point in time, and I think that was probably part of it. But also, if there was a landscape of emotional safety, I probably would have. So it's kind of that push and pull and that reflection of actually realizing that I don't even think things were okay back then. Yeah, it's just really interesting reflecting on that and being able to sit in that and think, okay, yeah, there was more things at play there than I realized at that point in time. Yeah. Yeah. Hindsight, hey. It's fucking great, isn't it? It's a real thing.

unknown 51:45

Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_00 51:46

It's terrible. I know. It's just so hard.

SPEAKER_01 51:50

The whole thing. I think it's just super interesting too. Like you fell pregnant with River like I don't want to use the word like naturally on your own, even after this chemical pregnancy with the whole IVF situation and the fact that you probably weren't able to have another transfer done for the rest of that whole year question mark.

SPEAKER_00 52:12

Oh, yeah. It was like it was, I don't even know. I think it was like six months later or something.

unknown 52:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:19

They made IBF not elective. I can't remember. But having obviously River was meant to be here. Yeah. And that's what I mean. Like, I have that benefit of the hindsight and knowing how it all worked out and being like, okay, that that actually makes so much sense now. That boy is so meant to be in my life for a reason. So I think that again, it's such a cop out when people say that to you. But for you, there will be a series of events and you'll be able to look back and know. But it's just shit when you're in the thick of it and you can't fucking see that. You don't have that ref that that ability because it's just you're in the thick of it. Can't see the forest for the trees.

SPEAKER_01 52:59

No, but I do feel like there is someone else that's meant to be here, I think, though. Because I've always been talking about the fact that I think that's meant to be a little girl, which yeah, I don't know. I just think that there's something else, someone else. Because we had already named this baby even before you conceived this time around. And I was telling Harry her name and he was like, Oh, how cute. So, anyways, I hope that I have had I do have that one day. Yeah. Like I know that there's gonna be a plan in place and that yeah, that something will come through and it will stick next time round. And like I'm just very hopeful for that. Like, I think it'll be very interesting to see how that process all evolves if and when I I'm gonna say when I fall pregnant next time, like if I'm gonna be feeling super anxious about it, or if I change my mind about getting blood tests done, or you know, if I'm gonna try and feel super confident in my own body and just read it how it goes and feel it through.

SPEAKER_00 53:57

I mean, I think one thing that I really want to say to you is that if you've said you don't get any HCG readings done or whatever, you're allowed to change your mind on everything. Do you know what I mean? I don't want you to lock yourself in and be like, I'm not doing that. And then actually when you fall pregnant, you're like, actually, no, I I do want to do that, but I said I wasn't going to. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Just you are allowed to change your mind. And that that goes out to everyone who's listening to this, is you are allowed to change your mind on whatever the fuck you want to change your mind on. Don't lock yourself in. I can be very rigid in my thinking, and that's why I'm saying that. Because if you're like, no, I said I wasn't gonna do that, so I'm not gonna do it. I actually want to now. So I think yeah, I can't wait to move through that whole journey with you, and that's why again, I'm love going through all of this with you. I get to be like third-wheeling, you and Louie, the whole time. Someone's got to. Yeah, I know, and I'm so here for it. I fucking love it.

SPEAKER_01 54:50

Yeah. But thank you for sharing your experience as well, right? It's all yeah, everyone's experience is just so different. And I think it's just really important to hear a multitude of different stories around it as well, right? It's the same with birth, it's the same with anything, really. I just think it's oh yeah, I just think it's really important. Yeah, I agree 100%. I just don't think we I know we always go, oh, wait, I think we talk about it enough, but I actually genuinely don't think we talk about it in enough depth detail. I think.

SPEAKER_00 55:19

Yeah. I think the actual experience of just being a woman is not talked about enough. It's not mainstream, right? It's so random that I've just thought about this, but even off campus, right? The show, the hockey show, like that whole experience of being a woman and then having a man take care of you, and you can be vulnerable with him and actually him prioritizing your feelings amongst everything else. Shock horror, people are so hot for that because it's literally all women want. That experience of being a woman and being female is just so not talked about in enough detail ever, I don't think. And so there could be a million stories out there, and then there's still gonna be someone that can contribute to the conversation with a unique experience. Do you know what I mean? I am just all for the more women's voices in the media and all of that, the fucking better it's gonna be, apart from if you're Pauline Hansen, sorry. Oh, funny. I know. Seriously. Lovely politics. Yeah, tell me about it.

SPEAKER_01 56:26

So yeah, yeah, I agree. We're gonna swing around to a different topic. Do you want to tell everyone about how I suppose you're going now? Yeah. How long have you been living in your house now? How long has it been? Stop it. Stop counting, stop counting. That's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_00 56:47

That's not real. Insane. What the fuck? Like seven or eight months? Wow, that's wild. I thought it was this year, but it clearly wasn't. No, it was like November last year I moved to the year. No, November, yeah, yeah. November, December, January, February, March, April, May, June. Yeah, seven months. Insane. And I was actually just saying to someone at work today that if you had have told me eight months ago, in my birthday, eight months ago, my birthday. Oh, yes. Right. When I went completely offline from everyone. Amy went able. I literally did. I got so depressed, I just stopped talking to everybody for a week and wanted to die. That in eight months I would probably be the happiest I've ever been in my fucking life. I would have called you a cunt and told you to fuck off.

SPEAKER_01 57:33

Like, no, I know it's not the right thing to say to somebody. I was just like, just take it better.

SPEAKER_02 57:39

It will get better.

SPEAKER_00 57:41

And that's true for a lot of things. It's just a time thing, right? It literally is. But yeah, like I like I again, I sent you an audio. I feel like we saw that all the time. But lit Laura and I sent each other audios, multiple audios a day. Too many for a while. Yeah. But I don't give a fuck. It's just what we do. And I had this feeling, was it last week or the week before? When I was just like, actually, I am so happy with my life. The way it is. I was driving to work. I wasn't feeling I don't feel anxious about going to work at all anymore. Yeah. Ever. I used to get that all the time. But I love the people that I work with. Don't get me wrong, some days are really hard. I've had a really hard week this week. I'm tired from going to school camp the week before. I have my period, then I've come into a week of solo parenting.

SPEAKER_02 58:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:28

It's hard. It is hard. But I am so happy with it. I love my job. I love my kids. My kids have settled right down. River was so angry for so long. And I was so concerned. I was like, oh my God, this is just going to be like so difficult because he was so aggressive and telling me that he hated me and all of this sort of shit. And then Ezra moved into his own place. He moved out of his parents' house. And that calmed River down a lot, which I kind of we knew that was going to happen anyway.

SPEAKER_02 59:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:05

And I'm really, I'm grateful to you, to all of my female friends that are around me, constantly cheering me on and being the sounding boards that I fucking need. I see all these things on Instagram where it's like I don't need romantic love because my friendships are so strong. And it's just that is just so true for me. I'm so lucky to have so many incredible women around me. My family's not close, but I don't need them to be because I have you guys. So I just had that real epiphany of not everything in my life is perfect, but I'm actually I don't want for anything at the moment. And even though I only see my kids 50% of the time, the last couple of rotations I've had are actually incredible with my kids. I'm so happy. I'm laughing with them. I'm not stressed. I think they're noticing that as well. Yeah, genies just they seem more relaxed and stuff. And I just like it. Excuse me. So I'm just having a really nice time being on my own. Yeah, which is amazing. Yeah. Complete 180. Yeah, literally, like we were saying, like when it was my birthday last year when I turned 36, I literally thought that I'd I didn't know if I would survive the next year. I knew the heartbreak was going to be so strong because, like, even though Ezra and I had been separated for so long and I'd told him that I wanted to get a divorce, there's like those incremental heartbreaks that happen at each step of the way, right? Like you know it's coming. You know that there's a massive heartbreak coming when actually your children aren't with you in the house anymore. And I will never forget that for the rest of my life, that feeling of putting my kids in the truck with all of our shit and watching it drive away and being in that huge house on my own alone for a week or for five days or whatever it was. And being like, what the fuck am I doing with myself? Why the fuck am I doing this? To now, like it's just you just have to slog through the shit in order to come out the other side and just be more confident and more trusting in yourself. And it's all about, I think for me, this has just been a huge learning curve on learning who I am now.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:15

Yep. And the other day you sent me an audio and you were super emotional about the fact that you were feeling very, I suppose, happy, like properly happy with everything in your life kind of at the moment. Yeah. Like obviously, don't get me wrong, like you would have probably loved your relationship to to be amazing and stay in that and have the whole family household together. I know that's that's right. But it's not the situation you're in, but it's like you're so happy with everything that's happening at the moment. Even like I think you I don't you'll have to correct me. And was it the first time that you felt like that in my life?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:51

Yeah. And happy with who you are and where you're at with everything? 100%. Yeah. I think I said it to you the whole in my whole 36 years of living, I've actually never felt this level of happiness and contentment in my life. Yeah, there's always been something more that I've wanted, or like I've felt some level of discomfort, or whatever it is, and again, I still feel uncomfortable, and I still feel there's still that emotion there. I feel so much more regulated and capable of handling those things, and just even the way that I've I think about things is just completely different now to how it was 10 years ago or whatever, even six months ago. So I've never had that feeling in my whole 36 years of life of being like, holy shit, I'm actually just really happy with myself and yeah, where I'm at, and also just really proud of myself for making these really fucking hard decisions and not knowing you have no idea how it's gonna turn out, and you're sitting there and you're like, I don't want to be married to this person anymore. But basically, society tells you that I should be because we're married and through thick and thin and all of your wedding vows and all that sort of shit. And you're like, I've got two kids with this person, and obviously, I am again, I'm actually really grateful to Ezra. We have a really amazing friendship, he's an amazing dad to the kids, and through that, I'm able to have this space for myself this week off. That yeah, you know, because I'm confident that he's gonna be the best dad that he can be for our children, yeah. So I'm grateful to him as well. So it's just a whole mixture of gratitude and just actually sitting in that recognition of I've actually worked really hard to fucking get where I am. Super fucking hard, yes, super hard. Like I've been able to provide my children with stable housing. That was a feat. I've managed to get a job that I initially thought I was gonna not like, and now I actually really love it. So there's a whole bunch of stuff rolled into that for me, and just living authentically for yourself, especially as a woman in a world that tells you that you shouldn't, it's like really there's something about it. And then obviously, like I'm not necessarily, I mean, I'm not gonna go into too much detail on this podcast, but yeah, I'm not necessarily dating anybody either, but I am seeing people. Do you know what I mean? So having that aspect into my life as well. It's been interesting navigating that poor 36-year-old woman who hadn't slept with anybody else in 17 years. It's crazy. Yeah, it is crazy when you put it like that, actually.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:22

Yeah, but I am really proud of you, and I'm glad that you're actually proud of yourself because that's what's the most important thing, right? That you actually feel that about yourself. And being honest, that's the first time you've felt this much happiness and gratitude, I suppose, in your whole life.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:38

Such a wild feeling when you're geared towards negativity. Like, yeah, I yeah, it's weird. Yeah, yeah, it is because my first reaction to a lot of shit is to be negative, yes, and look for the bad shit. And I've worked so hard to not be like that because I think I don't want to be that person that's just like and trust me, I'm a cynical bitch. This is not me being like positivity rules, all because that's not the fucking truth at all. But yeah, yeah, it's just something that I want my daughter. I I think that's been the main motivator for me is that I want Juni to know that women can hold all of these things, and I think women have that really beautiful ability to hold the spectrum of human emotion really well. Yeah, and I want her to know that she can make hard decisions for herself and put herself first, so yeah, yeah. I think having children has honestly been the best thing that's ever happened to me in my entire life, and I would never change it for anything, no matter how hard it is. No, a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:38

And you change so much after having the children too so much. You know what I mean? It's funny because you know, talk about how you change after school and in your 20s, you just not the same person from 20 to 30, you're just a whole different person. Actually not. Oh my god. And then you get into your 30s, and most of the time people have kids in their I mean, you had kids a bit earlier, but most of the time these days, people. Have their kids in their early 30s, right? And then you're you then you're another person after having children. And like I've changed significantly in the last three years at Harry's Been Earthside. Our whole world has been turned upside down, and everything has to be done in a completely different way to what it was done before, because I couldn't cope with doing all the things that I was doing beforehand. So and it's amazing that you're teaching your kids as well that especially Juni being a female, that um if you're not happy with something, then you have the power to change it. It is hard, but you don't have to be stuck in a shit situation feeling unhappy and fucking hating your life.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:34

Exactly. And I think that people, women, I can only comment on my own experience, but I would export so much of my to people waiting for people to make decisions for me, especially in the marriage. I would wait for Ezra to make these decisions. And it's like now I don't do that anymore because I have no one. Right? It's on me. And having that responsibility is just it's so heavy, but also it is very I can't think of the word right now. Like empowering. I don't like that word. Yeah, empowering, but like invigorating. I don't know. I want to go for like where you okay, it's on me. I fucked it up, it's on me. That's fine. Um, I've got no one else to blame but myself for that. And there come becomes that level of autonomy. And like when I actually sit in this for a second, and this is something that I probably really want to talk about, is the fact that I am the first woman in my bloodline to sit in my own house, be independent of a man, and completely self-sufficient. Yeah, that's wild. It's insane when you think about it like that. By choice. By choice. Yeah, and so I think that's why my mum has freaked out so much. But I wanted to do it. It triggers people, doesn't it? It does, it does, because obviously people worry about you. And my mum was here over the holidays, and the last school holidays was helping me move stuff around, and there were some pictures of Ezra and I when we were married, and she was like, Oh, you guys were just so in love. And I was like, Yeah, we were, but shit happens. What am I meant to say to that? And I think as time's gone on, my mum has I've been able to talk to her a little bit about my perspective on some stuff. Not that she she doesn't ask me outright, but I tell her. And I said to her, because I took her to Soak if you're in Brisbane, magnesium pools, like the heated magnesium pools and stuff, for her birthday and Mother's Day. And I was saying to her, there was this point in time for me when I remember sitting with Ezra and that we were having an argument, and I just literally had this moment of, I cannot do this for the rest of my life. I don't want to do this for the rest of my life. And I actually said to him in that moment, if you do not fix this, if you do not work on this, I am going to leave you. I'm going to ask you for a divorce. So I told her about that, and it's like, I just don't think that any other woman, like when I think about my grandmothers, they didn't do that. My mum hasn't done that. So it's and I like the women before my grandmothers, they didn't do that either. They were still married.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:07

So it's kind of like when you sit there and you're like, holy shit, like actually the first woman in my bloodline to do this, and then I think, oh my god, I'm actually so excited for Juni to see what she's gonna do with her life now.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:17

Yeah. So yeah, I mean, you're it's funny, you see all those little things come up on Instagram. I don't have TikTok, everyone. Amy probably always takes TikTok instead of Instagram. But you always see that it takes one woman in a generation that changes or alters the path or whatever it might be. And that's usually a birth thing that I always think about in my life, you know. But then now it's like you're living in a time where you can actually curate your own life however you want to. You don't have to be tied to a man and all the things that come along with that if you don't feel like you want to. Um, exactly. And women can't afford to do that either. You've got to really be quite smart with we've talked about that in the last podcast episode. Now I remember. Like you've got to, yeah, I suppose always look after yourself when it comes to that sort of stuff and make sure that you are set up even if a marriage breaks down or whatever, right? Yeah, being able to be financially whatever the word is financially independent.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:13

Independent, that's the word. Yeah. Autonomous. I just I feel like a society is shifting. I actually feel like it's the beginning of the end of a patriarchy, ultimately. I think it's still gonna take a lot of years to dismantle and undo. But I think the fact that women are choosing partners not based out of necessity anymore. Right. It's about emotional availability and it's about actually, well, what do we want in a partner rather than what do we need? Yeah. And I think men can't keep up with that. Even if you look in the workplace, like women are outpacing men in a system that's literally fucking built by men for men, and we're still outpacing them. And I just think I am so proud to be a woman. I've I love being a woman. I love the experience of being a woman in the sense that I mean, obviously there's pitfalls to it, but overall, I just think I was obviously born at the right time because I probably would have been given a lobotomy if I was born at the wrong time. Do you know what I mean? But it's just a really amazing experience and raising a daughter in this time. It's really or even raising a son, like you're raising Harry, and I really am hoping that this next generation of men that come from us as mothers is just they're so I'm really hoping that they're a different breed because I think we need that. The world needs that.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:29

But I mean, we're different too, right? So in turn, it just will hopefully brush off on them. And obviously, we're like consciously parenting our sons in a way where I'm like, I don't think, yes, you know, like Harry knows how to bake and he knows how to cook. Like with me, he does that sort of stuff, and he always wants to be involved in helping in all the things.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:49

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:50

And you know, when I was crying the other day, he said to me, Mummy, it's okay to cry, you're allowed to add. And I was like, shut the fuck up. You're making it worse. Stop looking at me, stop looking. And he knows about like my period. He comes and he's oh my god, is there blood? And like he like we we're parenting them so differently. Then I feel like like I never saw that stuff growing up, and then a pad was thrown at me when I've got my period, and I was like, I don't know what to do with that. Nothing was ever discussed or talked about, or it was open. So everything is gone from zero to a hundred for me from my childhood to now and how we like all the stigma is removed. Yeah, it's all gone. Like I'm I'm parenting him as if in a sense he like isn't gendered, is what I want to say. So I'm he's he's learning about all the things that are women's stuff and business or whatever. Yeah, like but he knows all that stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:46

So I think it's the same with River too. I will put a tampon in or change my pad or whatever, yeah, with River there, and he'll watch me do it and he'll be like, oh my god, that's so much blood. It's disgusting. He'll say that it's gross, it's disgusting. And I'm like, it's not though, mate. It's just my blood, it's just blood. And actually saying being able to say that to him and challenge that thought of him being like, it's gross. Actually, it's not, it's just blood.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:10

Yeah, like this is what we do every month, my friend. Like exactly, you don't have to do it, but like totally if you end up with a female partner one day, like you will need to meditate.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:20

It's gonna be totally comfortable. Well, even he's got a sister, so yeah, it's kind of like he's gonna need there's gonna be one day where he's probably gonna have to go out and get her a pad or go to the shop because she's run out of tampons or whatever. Do you know what I mean? There's so many aspects to that, and I just think I again like the whole crying thing with little boys, little boys are actually such emotional beings, emotional, and they're so sensitive. I feel like actually they're almost more sensitive than girls are, and and I've only got my two to compare it to, but children as a whole are just such a valuable aspect to our society that we don't respect enough. Even as a teacher, I just think to myself, we're in such a position of power as teachers to be so influential. I had a student come up to me today, a year seven boy who I don't have much to do with, but for some reason he sought me out in the crowd of people that we had there, and he was like, Can you help me do this, please? Because I only have dad only gave me five bucks and all the money, all the because it was obviously sports day at school today, and they had food trucks there, and he's everything starts at $10 and I don't have any money. Yeah, so I was like, All right, I'll walk you to the vending machine. Just having like when you think about that, that you're someone's day space even at school, it's just really valuable. So totally it's a really wild experience, I think. Just actually just being a human being. I know, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:47

Either much from kids, hey, it's actually insane by love being around them. They're just the best people on earth. Yeah, really, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:54

No, I agree 100%. I think they're great. I think they're great. I just love how honest they are. And there's no bullshit, especially with younger kids, like my own kids, but even with teenagers, they just if they don't like you, you're gonna know about it.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:07

100%. So yeah, I do. I love it. I just I uh hope that this whole like our kids' generations and whatever, like I hope it just fully turns and yeah, yeah, especially these yeah, young boys and men, and I just I really do. I hope it's like a huge shift that's coming. I don't know what's gonna take a little while, but we're getting there. Yeah, god that we went all over the place with this. We didn't we?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:31

Oh my god, everyone's gonna go on a ride ride with us tonight.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:35

I uh we all I always I'm like, I don't know if people actually want to listen to these types of episodes. I don't know, but anyways, it's everyone. We've technically taken a mid-year-ish break already.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:47

Um we're about to start interviewing again, but it's probably because our schedules are so different, like to what they used to be.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:56

Yeah, we'll we'll keep going. We're all good, we're coming back. We'll just we'll try our best to do once a fortnight, depending on any other circumstances. But yeah, and we've had two that didn't record properly, and then we've had a couple that have had to cancel or whatever. It just hasn't worked out very well, to be honest. It's been a bit weird, but it's probably the timing has worked out perfectly, I think, to be honest. Because the last two weeks we've I have been all over the shop, obviously, very valid.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:25

Like even tonight, like that worked out really well because I wasn't even gonna be here and I didn't want to leave you the interview on your own after that happened, so we worked out really well. So I think because the last couple of people that we're meant to interview have actually had to go to births, yes. So this is the name of the game known as birth previous birth workers. We understand that, so yeah, it's all part and parcel of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:49

That's it, and Amy and I have been talking about I have been I've been like, I want to talk about this whole miscarriage situation because I've actually sought out to look on Goo like onto Apple and what is it called? Apple Podcasts to try and figure out like you search miscarriage, and there's all these other weird podcasts come up that I wouldn't normally listen to, and I've just found it really hard. Like even in even in podcast episodes, like all the different birth ones, not many people that you just they breeze we breeze over miscarriage a bit too much, I think. Oh, too much, yeah. Um obviously we're here for it's awful, like you're here to listen to a full pregnancy and birth thing, right? That's what you're there for to get that sort of knowledge, but yeah, it's the it's too much breezed over, I think. And yeah, I suppose we've only had like a handful of women come on and have been really generous with talking about things um and their experiences with it. So I just think, yeah, this is and it's also I don't know. Hopefully in future it'll be a different episode that we record, and I'm like, oh my god, I'm right on it.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:51

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:52

Yeah. And it's something for me to look back on too and be like, oh my god, I can't believe I was whatever headspace I was back then and now I feel totally different about it or whatever. So I think it's cool. So it's like our own little time catch all sometimes at the night.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:06

It is, yeah. I think it's really great, to be honest, because it's our own little contribution to that warp and weave of the female experience. So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:16

Yeah, I think so too. So, anyways, everyone, I hope that you've enjoyed enjoyed listening. And thank you all if you've decided to continue listening to this, because obviously I'm gonna title it with miscarriage and the top of it. And if you've gotten all the way to the end of this, thank you so much for listening and holds for me. This is what I want to say. Yeah, and Amy as well. Yeah, yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:38

Oh, as I've said to you a million times this week, I'll always listen to your shit. Don't worry about it. And you listen to mine for two packages. Not exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:48

Uh but yeah, anyways, I just wanted to say that I appreciate everyone that's circled me in this whole last couple of weeks. So I'm very much appreciative of everybody, and especially Amy, because obviously Amy's I sent her photos of things too, and I sent her things that I would never say to anybody else out loud, and everyone judges me, which is amazing. I'm sure everyone has one of those people in their life, which you need. If you don't have one, don't want to figure out how to find one.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:14

Yeah. Someone that's just not gonna judge you. Safe space. So, yeah. Yeah. Alright. Thanks guys for listening, and we will tune back in because I'm sure we're gonna have a new episode up soon. Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of HBSA. We would love it if you could leave us a rating or a review on the platform you're listening on, as it helps us reach more people wanting to birth at home. We also have a bias a coffee donation system, and if you feel you are able to leave any amount, we are so grateful. We also have a merchandise store where you can get HBSA and birth work teas and totes sourced locally. All links are in the show notes.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:54

We truly love doing this and are keen to bring you more stories of babies being born at home. The information, statistics, and research presented in this podcast are for informational purposes only and are not intended to constitute or replace medical or midwifery advice. All information discussed can be found online and is provided in the links in the show notes. It is always recommended to conduct your own research and make your own informed decisions. We advise you to discuss any topics or concerns with your healthcare provider. While we strive to incorporate the most up-to-date research in our episodes, we do not warrant or guarantee the accuracy of information discussed on the show.